By Rajneesh Bhandari
On July 20, 2010, we discussed about Racism and Certain stereotypes in the Disney Movies . Below is what we discussed.
rajneeshtimes: welcome to all
rajneeshtimes: thank u so much for ur participation
rinisoe: greeting everyone
deepaexcel5: hi
love_arte: hi all!
deepaexcel5: thanks and welcome
rinisoe: Mery meet
rajneeshtimes: we will be starting in few minutes
deepaexcel5: ok
rinisoe: ur welcm
rinisoe: ok
rajneeshtimes: I think it's 7
rajneeshtimes: let's start
love_arte: ok
rajneeshtimes: let's start with a short intro of all
rajneeshtimes: my name is rajneesh bhandari, i am from nepal and i work as a tv journalist
love_arte: who start first?
rajneeshtimes: deepa!
deepaexcel5: Hi i am deepa.......professionally i am computer dept. Head of my office and LL.B student as well.
rajneeshtimes: dina
rinisoe: I am Surien from Indonesia, now i m working with my own small handcraft bussiness.
deepaexcel5: ok
rinisoe: sorry write too early
deepaexcel5: nice to meet you
love_arte: hi all, my name is Dina, from Indonesia. I'm a lecturer
love_arte: my field is media studies
rajneeshtimes: Racism and Certain stereotypes in the Disney Movies; this is our topic
rajneeshtimes: today
rinisoe: nite to meet u deepa, n all :)
rajneeshtimes: So, have u watched Disney movies?
love_arte: yes, many!
deepaexcel5: which one?
rajneeshtimes: @Dina, could u please tell some movies
rajneeshtimes: and your experiance of watchin git
love_arte: aladdin
love_arte: jungle book
deepaexcel5: oh
rajneeshtimes: Deepa, could you add few form your experiance
love_arte: the emperor new groove
rajneeshtimes: I would like to welcome saya
rinisoe: hi aya
deepaexcel5: aladdin and jungle book my fav. one......i never feel any kind of racisum
rajneeshtimes: @Saya, could you please introduce yourself
sayainfi: hai I'm farida
rajneeshtimes: Farida, what do you do
sayainfi: sory, its my firs time
love_arte: its ok, farida
rajneeshtimes: we welcome you all
sayainfi: I'm a social worker
sayainfi: and a single mother
deepaexcel5: ok great
rajneeshtimes: Great.
rajneeshtimes: @Deepa, you were saying you nevere felt any kind of racism in aladdin and jungle book
rajneeshtimes: could you please elaborate more
sayainfi: what the topic
sayainfi: am I late
rajneeshtimes: @Farida, the topic is Racism and Certain stereotypes in the Disney Movies
sayainfi: I see
deepaexcel5: yes...might be at that time i was a kid so i never notice
deepaexcel5: and now days no time to watch cartoon
rajneeshtimes: @Dina, what do you say, are there racism in Disney Movies.
love_arte: yes
love_arte: anybody here already watched some Disney movies, right?
rajneeshtimes: @Dina, I have watched
love_arte: Deepa said there's no racis at Aladdin
love_arte: no racism
rinisoe: yes, of course.
love_arte: let me show you this lyrics:
rinisoe: i mean of course i watched many
deepaexcel5: ok
love_arte: Oh, I come from a land, From a faraway place, Where the caravan camels roam, Where they cut off your ear If they don‘t like your face, It‘s Barbaric, but hey, it‘s home.
love_arte: this is a part of the song from aladdin
love_arte: after this song was launched, there were so many protest..
deepaexcel5: ae
deepaexcel5: really
love_arte: yup
deepaexcel5: is this title song?
love_arte: no
deepaexcel5: ok
love_arte: just a part of the song
sayainfi: its like a stigma for any country?
deepaexcel5: ok
love_arte: yes
deepaexcel5: yeah
love_arte: dont you aware the relation between the lyrics and the background of the movie (aladdin)?
love_arte: the lyric talks about arabic people right?
rajneeshtimes: yes
deepaexcel5: yes
sayainfi: yups its like stigma for the arabic Islan and moslem people?
deepaexcel5: i agree
rinisoe: it might be reflected kinda of racism or prejudice on the soundtract. but i didnt see any of the setting showed that the setting describe the barbaric situation
love_arte: can you imagine: how many people in the world already watched this movie?
sayainfi: the song sound like to say that arabic or islam is barbarian
love_arte: especially the children?
love_arte: yes, rini, directly is not like that
love_arte: BUT:
love_arte: When American children hear the word “Arab" what is the first thing that comes to mind?
love_arte: especially after they watched this movie?
rinisoe: some people may be notice those lyrics as a racims words, but in the fact some (muslim one) may be didnt care or notice because the soundtract actually is the separate part of the movies/setting.soundtrach ussualy is made for retouch or to make the movie more dramatic
rajneeshtimes: I agree with rini
deepaexcel5: ok
love_arte: nope
love_arte: many arabic groups did many protest related this lyric
sayainfi: for the moderat moslem maybe its no problem
rinisoe: may be we should make the term of racism issues here more specific, its may be refer to arab, not the muslim. that the first that we must to understand.?
love_arte: and finally, the disney corporation changed it
rajneeshtimes: Disney is the world's largest media conglomorate
love_arte: :) I'm not talking about the muslim, Rini
love_arte: I'm talking about arabic people
sayainfi: but for the fundamentalist arab is the first referen
sayainfi: arab is like symbol of Islam
deepaexcel5: ok
sayainfi: coz Islam come from there
love_arte: yes, but we can not mix it into the same problem
sayainfi: for me its no prob, coz i'm a moderat
rajneeshtimes: @Amelia, welcome, could you please introduce yourself
day.amelia: Hi all...
love_arte: but this is actually a big problem
deepaexcel5: hi
day.amelia: I am Amelia, from Jakarta
love_arte: its not about you are moderate or not
rinisoe: yes, love arte, i just respon to sayainfi words which mention about moderan moslem
love_arte: hi Amelia, nice to meet you here
day.amelia: nice to meet you arte
rinisoe: hi amelia
day.amelia: (I am sitting nicely just to comprehend the ongoing discussion, sorry for late enrolment)
sayainfi: Oke i gree its not about fundamentalism or moderat
sayainfi: maybe its will be another discussion in other area
love_arte: the problem is:
love_arte: the movie teach the wrong knowledge to the children
rinisoe: :) yeah, sayainfi, i think may be we should focus on the alladin theme/soundtract first
deepaexcel5: yes
rinisoe: do u think the children learned a lot about racism just because it soundtrack, lovearte?
rajneeshtimes: I am repeating the lyric: Oh, I come from a land, From a faraway place, Where the caravan camels roam, Where they cut off your ear If they don‘t like your face, It‘s Barbaric, but hey, it‘s home.
love_arte: not only through the lyric
sayainfi: give another sample
love_arte: let me quote the important information about chldren
rinisoe: i mean, soundstract like i mentioned previously, more like kinda retouch for the movie, accent. not the main "show". sometime people dint notice about the sountract or lyrics.
love_arte: According to the National Association for the Education of Young Children (NAEYC),
children between 2 and 5 years of age start to become aware of race, ethnicity, gender and
disabilities. They can accurately identity “Black” and “White” when labeling pictures, dolls and
people. Children develop their own racial identity during preschool and elementary school years
(Ramsay, 2003).
love_arte: see?
rinisoe: may be this is not about the soudntract teach sometime but does the movie is content racism?
love_arte: yes
love_arte: the character of JAFFAR
deepaexcel5: which one
rajneeshtimes: @Dina, how are disney movies received in indonesia?
sayainfi: oh, I should to wacth that movie again
love_arte: :)
rajneeshtimes: thank you for the information and the quotes. It's very informative.
sayainfi: a lot off people in Indonesia love disney movie as aI know
love_arte: only certain people aware with this information. Mostly children, just like other children in the world,
love_arte: they do not aware much
love_arte: The Aladdin character in that movie portrays “bad” Arabs with
thick foreign accents while Anglicized Jasmine and Aladdin speak in standard Americanized
English” (Giroux, 1995).
love_arte: Aladdin looks and sounds like a fresh-faced American boy. One of the
evil characters, Jafar, looks very Arabic. Some of the lyrics in the movie convey racist
overtones: “I come from a land…where they cut off your ears if they don’t like your face. It’s barbaric, but hey, it’s home” (Maio, 1999).
deepaexcel5: ok
love_arte: Jaffar is very arabic and looks like a villain
rajneeshtimes: @Deepa, how are disney movies received in Nepal. Were you aware about these things when u were a child
rinisoe: ok,regarding what loverarte quoted, may be it s true racism refelected clearly on the soundtract.but how about the other things on that movie?
love_arte: Rini, you must read some messages I posted earlier..
rinisoe: love arte, of course jaffar look so arabic because he s described as arabic. if he s from java then sounds so arabic, it would be a weird then :D
deepaexcel5: no....aladin and jasmin my fav love Couple... i never notice
love_arte: its ok, Deepak, but you must see the whole movie
love_arte: everybody here already watched PETER PAN?
rinisoe: lover arte, i read ur message, thats why i wrote that the racism issues may be true reflected on the soundtract. but then, how about other things? like the main character, their setting, story etc
rajneeshtimes: yes
sayainfi: Some people maybe don't care about the detail content
rinisoe: movie is not about the soundstract only.
love_arte: Another common stereotype noted in Disney movies is that of the Native American. In the film Peter Pan, Princess Tiger Lily’s father represents the negative stereotype of being uncivilized and savage as he holds Wendy’s brothers hostage.
sayainfi: they just know to make happiness with waching this movie
love_arte: sure!
rajneeshtimes: @Dina, why was Disney so ignorant about all these issues, after all it is the world's largest media
love_arte: Louis Althusser called the process as ISA or Ideological State Apparatusses
love_arte: well..
love_arte: Disney represents itself as America, right?
rajneeshtimes: could u elaborate it more
love_arte: they makes movies as how american usually thinks..
sayainfi: Do you think that Disney have 'hidden' mission?
love_arte: sure!
deepaexcel5: can't say
rajneeshtimes: what could be the mission then?
love_arte: a great image of america as a big country!
rinisoe: i dont think the huge one like disney have certain mision espesially the mean one
love_arte: and they do it succesfully through many movies!
rinisoe: i used to work for the publisher which own the liscne of disney comic for indonesia. they really concern about human right etc
deepaexcel5: that good
love_arte: I know.. but Rini, the comis is not so simple as people think.
sayainfi: I just curious
rinisoe: there are long list of disney movies, not only cartoon, also another "products" ,if they have certain mission , they wont only make small number to "shoot" that mission
rinisoe: let me share how many character in disney (comic) was create
love_arte: it was proved by a book by Ariel Dorfman and Armand Mattelart
deepaexcel5: ok
love_arte: the book is : How to Read Donald Duck :)
rinisoe: most of them made base on true story. even some of them actually character of the uncle/grandma/ect (family) of the creator. the point here, they tried to build real character base on true things
love_arte: It was a political analysis book about the comic of Donald duck and published at Chile, 1971
rinisoe: bad/good characters
deepaexcel5: wow
love_arte: yes, but this is more than bad or good character
sayainfi: whose ,ade the character?
rinisoe: if i m not mistaken, they didnt mean any but ttied hard to make the setting/storry on comic look alikes real one
love_arte: why did they make the style of Aladdin was so american? and act like a young american boy?
rinisoe: for exaple, the character of grandma of uncle scrooge, the goose, etc
rajneeshtimes: point to be noted
sayainfi: The background of the creator can be involve the cartoon characters
love_arte: and if you watch MULAN 2, you will fine the strange moment in the end of the movie..
rajneeshtimes: very true
love_arte: just watch it and then you will know..
rinisoe: so i mean, the racism isues on the setting might be will apear
rinisoe: but it doesn mean disney made it n purpose as certain mission.
love_arte: the movie of MULAN 2 is verrryyy America, fully with their values..
deepaexcel5: ok
love_arte: sure they have mission, why not?
rinisoe: aladin soundtract which must reedit in 2004 may be one sample of disney mistake that they didnt notice well that the soundstract contain that rasism issues
sayainfi: or disney will hide behind the person who creat the character
rinisoe: diney never hide the creator of disney character
rinisoe: i agree that might be the lyrics of it soundtract was contain rasicm issue.may be prejudice.
rajneeshtimes: @Dina, how do you describe, disney now?
rinisoe: but on movie, i dont think the movie has it issues
love_arte: I'm not agree with you, Rini, in fact in many Hollywood movies, they portray many bad stereotipes and sure the racism itself
sayainfi: Disney as a big company should be carefull with their product
love_arte: well, they dont have to do that! they're american, right?
rinisoe: yes, i agree sayainfo. they sould more be careful
rinisoe: seem dina has slow connection
love_arte: they always do many times, including the hollywood industry
rinisoe: so, any other movies which u think contain rasism issues?
sayainfi: coz the should responsible to the world people about their product
sayainfi: about the content, the impact of their product
love_arte: Dumbo (1941_
love_arte: portrayed by the crows
love_arte: 3 black crows who were spoken and acted like black american
love_arte: and the used "black voice" character
love_arte: from FANTASIA
rajneeshtimes: @Dina, do you think it still cotinues in the disney movies
love_arte: the white centaur bring her foot to be caring with "black little centaur"
rinisoe: what is the last movie of disney now? i think its narnia, isnt?
love_arte: yes, till now. they spread certain stereotypes about the people from a country
rajneeshtimes: must be
sayainfi: My children Narnia so much
rinisoe: do u think any rasism issue on narnia, sayainfi?
rajneeshtimes: @Amelia, what do you think
rajneeshtimes: What about mickey mouse?
sayainfi: Rasism... not much
love_arte: this is interesting
rinisoe: not much? :D so u think there are some?
rinisoe: what about mickey, rajness?
love_arte: Mickey is loved by the children
love_arte: he becomes a power of Disney Company
rajneeshtimes: but it is very much american
sayainfi: but i litle bit afraid about the Violence...
love_arte: even this figure become a secret sign for amercan military at world war 2
sayainfi: just little bit
rinisoe: mickey mostly appear on regular cartoon tv show.but still not a lot.
love_arte: Mickey become a symbol
rajneeshtimes: @Is there any cartoon made by non-western company as popular and effective as walt disney
love_arte: only a year after he was creatde by Walt, the fans then found a group of MM and in year the member ia over than 5.000 children in US
sayainfi: Yup, poor people cant buy their CD/DVD movie or Disney Magazine
sayainfi: Indonesia have a lot of Cartoonist
rinisoe: sure radness, korean, japan (manga)
sayainfi: but the Gov dont give them enough space to express their talent
love_arte: yes, especially manga from Japan
rinisoe: sayainfi? how did u get that opinion?
sayainfi: The gov just busy to Corrupt
rajneeshtimes: but these things are not much popular in nepal
rinisoe: i dont think government has something to do about the oppurtunity to be cartonist in indonesia
rajneeshtimes: @Deepa are u there?
rinisoe: i used to work for the publisher who really welcome to the local one
love_arte: yes, but they never think about it
rinisoe: which one whicn not popular in nepal, rajnes?
rajneeshtimes: japanese, korean
rajneeshtimes: and others
love_arte: not popular or popular, rini?
sayainfi: When I was Child i ever wacth a Indonesian Cartoon Movie...
sayainfi: the title is HUMA,
rajneeshtimes: OK
love_arte: LET ME GIVE THE LAST STATEMENT
sayainfi: But now, I never know Indonesian Cartoon on TV
rinisoe: indonesia currently is attacked by korean n japan comics LOL :D if we talk about racism, those comics also has racism issues betwen t story
rinisoe: sayainfi, may be u are the one who didnt know, but actually we have so many talented people who already created many local productions :)
rajneeshtimes: we are coming to the end of the conferance
rinisoe: sometime, or mostly, regarding the commercial consideration, the producers or creator prefer not showing that they are indonesian
rajneeshtimes: i would like everyone to give their last statement
love_arte: THIS IS THE LAST MESSAGES FROM ME, ABOUT WHY DISNEY MOVIES ARE DANGEROUS IN MANY CONTENTS ESPECIALLY ABOUT RACISM AND OTHER STEREOTYPE
sayainfi: yups, I knoe we have so many cartoonist, but the gove dont give theam attention to grow
rinisoe: ok rajdness, and other, thanks you for the oppurtuinty
rinisoe: nice disccussion
love_arte: 1. According to the Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary, racism is defined as “a belief
that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences
produce an inherent superiority of a particular race” (2005-2006). Stereotypes are preconceived or oversimplified generalizations usually, but not always, involving negative beliefs about a particular group.
rajneeshtimes: I would like everyone to give their last statement
sayainfi: I like this discussion to
love_arte: 2. At a very young age, many children are exposed to movies, whether at the theater or on
videos at home. One major producer of children’s movies is the Disney corporation. These
animated films are often perceived as innocent and wholesome. “Given the influence the Disney ideology has on children, it is imperative for parents, teachers and other adults to understand how such films attract the attention and shape the values of the children who view and buy them (Giroux, 1995).
rinisoe: who first?
rajneeshtimes: Dina
sayainfi: I need to more be carefull about what my children Wacth.
rajneeshtimes: Great
love_arte: There have been many instances of racism identified in Disney movies including The Jungle Book (1967) which portrays gorillas and orangutans that sound like black people and Oliver and Company, with a Chihuahua named Alonzo that is typecast as a Latino troublemaker. At one point in the film, he talks about stealing cars. This negative stereotype is what children may remember when they hear someone speak with a similar accent. Lady and the Tramp features the Siamese cats that negatively portray Asians. They clearly have stereotypical Asian features such as slanted eyes, buckteeth and very heavy accents and are depicted as sinister, cunning and manipulative (Sun, 2001).
love_arte: DONE!
love_arte: LOVE YOU ALL!!
rajneeshtimes: @Rini, now you
rajneeshtimes: after that farida and deepa
rinisoe: i prefer to enjoy any movies, espesially disney one as a entertaiment part, so i wont take personal any issues which lead me into racism paradigm. but i agree that any movies should be careful with
rinisoe: the movie which they made, it suppose not contain any rasism or prejudice one. its family movie then should can enjoyed by anyone in this entire world
rajneeshtimes: Farida
rinisoe: never enter/over the limit the cultural situation
rinisoe: tq
sayainfi: I Love movie... but I need to choose a good movie for my children.
sayainfi: so what the next Topic
rajneeshtimes: Deepa r u there?
love_arte: he's asleep...
rajneeshtimes: Before Deepa writes anthing
rajneeshtimes: i would like to thank you all the for discussion
rinisoe: ur welcome, radness
rajneeshtimes: for the particpation
rinisoe: thanks for having me
sayainfi: I love the discussion
love_arte: you are welcome! I love to involve in this forum!
rajneeshtimes: This is our attempt to discuss new things and issues realted to media
rajneeshtimes: i thank you all
sayainfi: thank Dina ti invite me and rajnesh
love_arte: you are welcome, Farida!
sayainfi: what about the next topic?
rajneeshtimes: We will discuss about another interesting issue next week in the same time
deepaexcel5: whatever....We discuss but ending the story i am one of the big fav of Disney world........
rajneeshtimes: i will let you know about the next issue
love_arte: no prob Deepa..
rajneeshtimes: Have a great time
sayainfi: oke, I'm waiting
rajneeshtimes: the whole chat will be posted on http://marginaltalk.blogspot.com
love_arte: thanks!
rinisoe: have a great time everyone. talk to u all soon. bye for now
rajneeshtimes: will meet you all next week
deepaexcel5: ok
rajneeshtimes: Thank u all and have a great time and take care
deepaexcel5: bye
love_arte: byee!! see you next week!!
sayainfi: oke. see ya
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